Post by BoW GaCAman on Aug 10, 2014 7:07:15 GMT -5
ND buys a gun, or when gun ignorance speaks, it speaks badly...:-(
ND
"After our previous conversation, I thought I'd give you a little update. Things didn't work out exactly the way I thought they would. Instead of the SCCY 9mm we discussed, I ended up buying a Kel-Tec PF-9 9mm. Here's why.
First, there are no local dealers for SCCY in my area (that was kind of a biggy, but not insurmountable as it turned out).
Second, I went to a local gun shop, and they told me they could get the SCCY for me, but... they showed me the PF-9, demonstrated it, and it turned out it had all of the features of the SCCY model, including no manual safety. Also it weighs less...and was about 20 bucks less expensive.
Finally, they guaranteed me that if I bought the Kel-Tec and I had any issues whatsoever with it, I could bring it directly to them and they would fix it, or get it fixed by Kel-Tec at no expense to me (providing I hadn't been using it as a billy club or some such). They wouldn't make the same offer for the SCCY simply because they really have no experience with the brand."
About the only thing he got right in those paragraphs is weight. The Kel-Tec DOES weigh all of 2 ounces less, but that's pretty darn easy to do, with a single-stack design, compared to a double-stack. That alone (magazine weight) would account for it.
Now, let's go over the points he raised. 'There are no local SCCY dealers in my area.' Not true. There are SCCY dealers in EVERY area, and it's a matter of knowing how to look for one. If there's no 'box store' dealer (what he really MEANT) you can always find an FFL guy/gal (who has no brand incentive/bias to try to sway you to 'his' brand) via the distributor. Since this individual just ran out and bought 'a' gun, I never had a chance to explain that.
Next, 'I went to a local gun shop, (his FIRST practical mistake) and they told me they could get the SCCY for me, (sure they did, for about 10 seconds) but...they showed me the PF-9, demonstrated it, and it turned out it had all of the features (wrong, bud, you're missing nearly 50% of the capacity) of the SCCY model, (nope, no lifetime warranty, from K-T) including no manual safety. Also it weighs less...and was about 20 bucks (that depends on how the dealer stated the price, and again, it's a single-stack gun) less expensive'.
Lastly, 'they guaranteed me that if I bought the Kel-Tec and I had any issues whatsoever with it, I could bring it directly to them and they would fix it, (might be true, depends on the dealer's past performance, or K-T experience) or get it fixed by Kel-Tec [yes, but the turnaround times may be long, and there's no guarantee K-T won't charge, after a long ownership period, when the gun is most likely to potentially break] at no expense to me (providing I hadn't been using it as a billy club or some such). They wouldn't make the same offer for the SCCY (how could they?...they obviously don't know squat about them, nor do they WANT to) simply because they really have no experience with the brand'.
So, did he make a terrible mistake? No, I think he got a decent gun, at a good price. Did he get the most gun for his money, with the 'same' features? Absolutely NOT!...and if he wanted an apples-to-apples comparison he should have been looking at the P-11, not the PF-9. I could have told him that, (if he'd come back and asked) but obviously he lacked the basic knowledge to see that the PF was a single-stack gun, unlike either the P-11, or SCCY CPX-2.
Notice his initials are ND, and that doesn't stand for 'Negligent Discharge'. I'm thankful he didn't buy a Glock, and that the shop (evidently) didn't try to sell him one. It's one time I'm glad Glock is so greedy, because as soon as any dealer starts quoting a price $200 to $300 higher, most buyers will go 'what'? and choke.
One last VERY IMPORTANT point. Take a look at the upper left pic, which is a P-11. Does that gun look IDENTICAL to the one on the right? No, you can see the grips are completely different (no finger grooves, on the K-T, for one thing) and there's one more BIG difference invisible to the naked eye, but known by those who have a long history with both brands. The SCCY is not built by the same workers, nor is it built in the same plant, nor does either company have any connection to the other, except that K-T did license the basic design out to SCCY, many years ago. SCCY did not have to follow it like a clone, and it's mainly for the internals, rather than the externals. That's why you see the grip differences, on the outside.
I've saved the most important differences for last. I had a P-11 as my first high-cap carry gun, right when they first came out, around 1990 time frame. It shot ok, and never had any real troubles with it, but the durn gun rattled when you shook it. No, it wasn't parts inside loose, it was the bullets, in the magazine. The SCCY does NOT do this, and I can tell also by the way it shoots and feels in my hand its an updated and improved design. SCCY was bought out a few years ago by some new owners, and one of the very first things they did was buy all-new CNC production machinery. Kel-Tec has similar (but older) machines, so I think that may account for some of the differences, including being tighter, in internal parts tolerances.
Again, ND did ok, but he was actually kinda 'lucky' with the way things went. He might have ended up with a Davis or Hi-Point (bedside brick) handgun, and (like most internet folks) probably would have figured out a way to turn that decision around, to blame me for his poor choice. Ah, well, at least with the purchase he made, that occurrence should not be a part of our mutual futures, thankfully. :-)
ND
"After our previous conversation, I thought I'd give you a little update. Things didn't work out exactly the way I thought they would. Instead of the SCCY 9mm we discussed, I ended up buying a Kel-Tec PF-9 9mm. Here's why.
First, there are no local dealers for SCCY in my area (that was kind of a biggy, but not insurmountable as it turned out).
Second, I went to a local gun shop, and they told me they could get the SCCY for me, but... they showed me the PF-9, demonstrated it, and it turned out it had all of the features of the SCCY model, including no manual safety. Also it weighs less...and was about 20 bucks less expensive.
Finally, they guaranteed me that if I bought the Kel-Tec and I had any issues whatsoever with it, I could bring it directly to them and they would fix it, or get it fixed by Kel-Tec at no expense to me (providing I hadn't been using it as a billy club or some such). They wouldn't make the same offer for the SCCY simply because they really have no experience with the brand."
About the only thing he got right in those paragraphs is weight. The Kel-Tec DOES weigh all of 2 ounces less, but that's pretty darn easy to do, with a single-stack design, compared to a double-stack. That alone (magazine weight) would account for it.
Now, let's go over the points he raised. 'There are no local SCCY dealers in my area.' Not true. There are SCCY dealers in EVERY area, and it's a matter of knowing how to look for one. If there's no 'box store' dealer (what he really MEANT) you can always find an FFL guy/gal (who has no brand incentive/bias to try to sway you to 'his' brand) via the distributor. Since this individual just ran out and bought 'a' gun, I never had a chance to explain that.
Next, 'I went to a local gun shop, (his FIRST practical mistake) and they told me they could get the SCCY for me, (sure they did, for about 10 seconds) but...they showed me the PF-9, demonstrated it, and it turned out it had all of the features (wrong, bud, you're missing nearly 50% of the capacity) of the SCCY model, (nope, no lifetime warranty, from K-T) including no manual safety. Also it weighs less...and was about 20 bucks (that depends on how the dealer stated the price, and again, it's a single-stack gun) less expensive'.
Lastly, 'they guaranteed me that if I bought the Kel-Tec and I had any issues whatsoever with it, I could bring it directly to them and they would fix it, (might be true, depends on the dealer's past performance, or K-T experience) or get it fixed by Kel-Tec [yes, but the turnaround times may be long, and there's no guarantee K-T won't charge, after a long ownership period, when the gun is most likely to potentially break] at no expense to me (providing I hadn't been using it as a billy club or some such). They wouldn't make the same offer for the SCCY (how could they?...they obviously don't know squat about them, nor do they WANT to) simply because they really have no experience with the brand'.
So, did he make a terrible mistake? No, I think he got a decent gun, at a good price. Did he get the most gun for his money, with the 'same' features? Absolutely NOT!...and if he wanted an apples-to-apples comparison he should have been looking at the P-11, not the PF-9. I could have told him that, (if he'd come back and asked) but obviously he lacked the basic knowledge to see that the PF was a single-stack gun, unlike either the P-11, or SCCY CPX-2.
Notice his initials are ND, and that doesn't stand for 'Negligent Discharge'. I'm thankful he didn't buy a Glock, and that the shop (evidently) didn't try to sell him one. It's one time I'm glad Glock is so greedy, because as soon as any dealer starts quoting a price $200 to $300 higher, most buyers will go 'what'? and choke.
One last VERY IMPORTANT point. Take a look at the upper left pic, which is a P-11. Does that gun look IDENTICAL to the one on the right? No, you can see the grips are completely different (no finger grooves, on the K-T, for one thing) and there's one more BIG difference invisible to the naked eye, but known by those who have a long history with both brands. The SCCY is not built by the same workers, nor is it built in the same plant, nor does either company have any connection to the other, except that K-T did license the basic design out to SCCY, many years ago. SCCY did not have to follow it like a clone, and it's mainly for the internals, rather than the externals. That's why you see the grip differences, on the outside.
I've saved the most important differences for last. I had a P-11 as my first high-cap carry gun, right when they first came out, around 1990 time frame. It shot ok, and never had any real troubles with it, but the durn gun rattled when you shook it. No, it wasn't parts inside loose, it was the bullets, in the magazine. The SCCY does NOT do this, and I can tell also by the way it shoots and feels in my hand its an updated and improved design. SCCY was bought out a few years ago by some new owners, and one of the very first things they did was buy all-new CNC production machinery. Kel-Tec has similar (but older) machines, so I think that may account for some of the differences, including being tighter, in internal parts tolerances.
Again, ND did ok, but he was actually kinda 'lucky' with the way things went. He might have ended up with a Davis or Hi-Point (bedside brick) handgun, and (like most internet folks) probably would have figured out a way to turn that decision around, to blame me for his poor choice. Ah, well, at least with the purchase he made, that occurrence should not be a part of our mutual futures, thankfully. :-)